Seeing Narcissism in the Brain

9/9/2013

We can now see narcissism in the brain. Brain scans of people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) showed they have less brain matter in areas associated with emotional empathy. This is the first time anyone has seen the evidence of narcissism in brain structures.

The inability to feel empathy is one of the hallmarks of NPD. Researchers have found that people with this disorder can take the perspective of another person in a purely intellectual way. However, when it comes to actually feeling what another person is going through, narcissists have difficulty.

A group of German researchers recently studied the source of this lack of emotional empathy in people with NPD. In their research, they collected MRI brain scans of 17 people with NPD along with 17 people from the community for comparison. The researchers first looked at brain volume overall and found that the people with NPD were similar to the healthy individuals. That is, both groups’ brains’ were similar overall.

The researchers then examined the areas of the brain that are now considered areas associated with empathy (i.e., bilateral anterior insula, anterior and median parts of the cingulate cortex, and the supplementary motor area). They found that the patients with NPD had less brain matter in areas that overlapped with the areas associated with empathy (i.e., left anterior insula, rostral and median cingulate cortex as well as dorsolateral and medial parts of the prefrontal cortex).

Put simply, the empathic areas of the brain were less developed in people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

Narcissistic Personality Disorder affects about 1% of the general population and it has been shown to impair interpersonal functioning. This groundbreaking research will likely help legitimize the disorder and, ironically, help people to empathize with people who are suffering with this illness.

By Dr. Syras Derksen
Winnipeg Psychologist

Reference:
Schulze, L., Dziobek, I., Vater, A., Heekeren, H. R., Bajbouj, M., Renneberg, B., Heuser, I., & Roepke, S. (2013). Gray matter abnormalities in patients with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Journal of Psychiatric Research, 47, 1363-1369. (http://www.journalofpsychiatricresearch.com/article/S0022-3956%2813%2900157-X/abstract)

184 Comments

Kat

6/4/2014 07:19:40 am

I found this article very interesting but why you would suggest empathy for them, is unimaginable to me.Anyone who has been directly affected by anyone with NPD,should be applauded for surviving.

mum

6/4/2014 08:21:02 am

Amen!!! I am a survivor.

6/6/2014 09:47:48 am

how would you ever get the patient to have an MRI?
how would you even get them to a doctor if they don't believe they have a problem? It is basically living in hell because only the spouse is aware of the issue. Even seeing a councillor is not helpful as the patient can manipulate so well. It seems to be a no hope situation.

Greg Bernstein link

7/5/2014 01:43:52 am

Kat and Mum: I'm still waiting for my medal for surviving the Twilight
Zone staring me and my narc ex of 14 years. She played the role of a reprobated wolf in sheep's clothing! Greg Bernstein

Nancy Willis

3/20/2016 08:39:28 pm

Me too! Matter of fact, I think I told myself that about fifty times today. Yes, I do feel for them. In spite of the treatment I've taken, the confusion, exasperation, callousness, taunting, being pushed over the edge, devalued, tortured and discarded -- who would sign up to have their brains so lacking? Of course, sometimes I also hope he has a massive MI

Sara

10/6/2016 03:15:08 pm

@ JC:
how o get him there?
My Narc went to the Neurologist for headache, he sent him to the MRI,and I collected the DVD afterwards.
Narc do not go to see a doctor for NPD, but for other things. MRI was no problem. But some go because of Burnout (at least they can blame their job for it and get supply) and then they are treated, and the spouse can also inform the doctor then of the NPD possibility. I am in a Therapy and I am still learning how I can get along with it, how I react to him, his traits and so forth. I was about leaving, I was about going no contact, I was about going to therapy because I could not cope again. I met a very good therapist who is good in NPD ... at the end a good therapist can help YOU to "therapy" the Narc, at least a little.

Michael Broughton

4/30/2018 12:36:19 am

Well I am a narcassist and the bad news for me is I’ve been trying to project my disorder onto my ex so that I can lie and say she is the narc in court . So if there are court proceedings that means a court can issue a court ordered MRI and the gig is up for us narcs . This is by far a victory for you victims !

K. Swanson

12/26/2014 04:13:14 am

I fully agree with you. There is zero point in putting yourself into harm's way.

Marjorie Murphy

2/22/2015 02:57:07 pm

This is fascinating. These people are NCR or Not Criminally Responsible. Hating does not help anyone move forward. They need to have a chance to learn about how they destroy people and what they can do to be their best. Forgiveness is a powerful healer. So is Love. Would you punish someone who lost a hand or a leg? They are human beings and somebody cares. Being bitter will make victims sick. We need a way to move forward all of us with no discrimination.

Grace

4/9/2015 12:27:42 am

The ONLY way to move forward and forgive is FAR FAR AWAY. When you see the destruction these people inflict upon their families and are affected negatively for the rest of their lives, it's a crying shame for someone to state how the N should be understood. TRIED THAT! For 28 yrs. No ma'am! Run....run as fast as you can!

Katrina

4/22/2015 02:40:15 am

Thank you Marjorie for having common sense and your unbiased view

Diana Valentine link

7/30/2015 02:53:18 pm

you have obviously never encountered a true covert narcassist. God forgive me but I hope you do one day. Then and only then will you be able to understand the evil behind their persona.

Donna

12/16/2015 08:26:37 pm

I respect your opinion, however it's obvious you are not a survivor of someone with NPD. I'm recovering from adrenal exhaustion, PTSD and severe depression with help from anti depressants and a psychologist as I was on the cusp of suicide. The ex narc? Oh he's fine. According to him I overreact to his cheating and mind games. He's A Ok and onto his next target, may God protect her.

erica

5/4/2016 01:35:19 pm

Only someone who hasn't met one would say something like that.

monique

9/10/2016 07:58:44 pm

Not Criminally Responsible? What the?!!! They know EXACTLY the impact they have on others, that's the reason they do it in the first place, in an attempt to destroy them. I'm not religious but there was JESUS who clearly states that you should STAY AWAY FROM STRIFE! I suggest mandatory brain scans and give them there own planet…. far, far away. They need to be breed out. They are more monster than human beings.

Stephen

10/4/2016 03:09:58 pm

For me forgiving means making peace inside by growing through meditations or other means that help to vibrate in a way that my narc doesn't affect me anymore. I still talk to my mum knowing who she is and knowing that she stole, she ruined my childhood and has kept destroying my life until I became aware of that a few years ago.
I forgive in a way, I feel sorry for her but I will not approach her too much because I know that she would bite on any occasion. She doesn't want to improve, she enjoys misery, anger, she is addicted to that, yes but now, without me!!!

Sora

10/6/2016 03:25:01 pm

I agree with you Marijorie
But it is not easy, you need people to support you, who listen to you whenever you need it, you need professional help. But then you can forgive, and love, and show love, and even a Narc feels that. Even if he is never really able to acknowledge what he does (he cannot because he does not have emotions as we have, how can someone understand fear if he does not have this kind of fear?)
I AM a survivor and I took the chance I got. And yes it helps, and yes there are little improvements. And yes there is manipulation, but what .... as soon as one knows about that quite well then it does not work again. They might get irritated but does it matter? Even this people react on love, even if it is very small and very little. they never got real love in their live, maybe not for 30/40/50 years. And now somebody looks behind their bad traits and does not see wickedness but an abused and traumatizes child, of course it is not easy, of course it might not always work, of course it takes a long time, but even they can receive it! Have you made some research on James Fallon? He knows he is narcisisstic/psychopathic, he has the traits and is learning to chance behavior. even psychopaths in jail nowadays are treated differently and it works. google MJTC Programm.
It is not always hopeless.

Denise Ibitoye

1/2/2017 10:29:59 pm

It's like someone being held in a chokehold and not trying to fight back.You just can't sympathize with the Narcissist

5/12/2017 12:25:59 am

Sorry Marjorie, but every single thing you said there is straight from the pseudo-compassionate narcissist's playbook. If you're going to manipulate people out of holding narcissists accountable for their behaviour, and pretend anyone who's been hurt by a narcissist is somehow at fault for being upset or holding them accountable, at least have the decency to be honest and say "I'm a narcissist, therefore it's in my best interest to promote the idea that everyone should feel very very sorry for narcissists, and realise they should be let off the hook for their abuse." instead of trying to dress yourself up as some sort of compassionate little saint who seems very invested in the idea that poor abusers should get away with their behaviour, and it's on the abuse victim to "forgive" them. Also, reframing anger, which is a useful emotion to protect people from being taken advantage of by the likes of you and calling it bitterness instead is another narcs trick. You people never realise how very revealing you are.

catsgarden

7/14/2017 10:00:23 pm

Obviously someone who had never been involved with a narcissist.
Wouldn't wish out on them either.

7/26/2017 10:54:56 pm

Their only help is death. None of these abusers deserve to walk around loose in society. None. They are reprobate. May they all fry in hell.

9/5/2017 04:04:47 pm

Narcissists are still criminally responsible. They know right from wrong / have the ability to show restraint and stop abusive behaviours in the presence of any witness not "on their team" & behave completely differently if the police are called by the victim etc. Or if they're triangulating and engaging in divide and conquer tactics to secure Flying Monkeys etc.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:03:53 pm

Because the like to DESTROY us financially, spiritually, physically and the children too. They can't Love is the problem. They can't. They have no empathy. They will CONSUME Im mean eat you ALIVE whoever shows Love or that they care. They prey on people with Love and Empathy because they can't have it. When we are used up they destroy us because they can't have it.

WEndy

12/15/2017 07:54:48 am

BECAUSE...they are subhuman...they have brains that are more reptilian than human. They are murderers of one's soul. Their only purpose is to have narcissistic supply to suck dry and discard. Do your homework. You obviously have never been traumatized by these creatures.

Judy

12/17/2017 02:09:31 am

Did you know that brain function can be improved in certain areas by practicing whatever you are lacking? They are not brain damaged and research found that Narcissists know exactly what they are doing. They could choose to not act on their feelings but instead do what would be decent. I have absolutely no compassion for the man who destroyed my childhood. Don't blame the victim for feeling the way they do. And no, meditation doesn't help. The only thing that helps is to get this person out of your life as soon as you can and go to therapy. You clearly have never dealt with a true narcissist.

LORIE Burton

1/4/2018 08:54:59 pm

This is the only illness in which the people surrounding the Narcopath need therapy, and have their lives uprooted, and the Narc is perfectly functioning as the usual destroying machine they are with no worries, no determents to their own lives - only more fuel to carry on with their missions of destruction to others. You especially need to experience this first hand. Dumb BITCH.

Sherri Cox

2/15/2018 05:28:25 pm

They don't want to learn and don't care. It is too painful for them because they know they are different and have put a mask on since a child. They see us two dimensional just like we did when we where children but they can't go any further. They can't and don't care if they hurt us.

Donald Cameron link

3/5/2018 02:19:44 pm

There are four recognized Cluster B personality disorders:[4]

Antisocial personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.7): a pervasive disregard for the law and the rights of others.
Borderline personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.83): extreme "black and white" thinking, chronic feelings of emptiness, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior often leading to self-harm and impulsivity.
Histrionic personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.50): pervasive attention-seeking behavior including inappropriately seductive behavior and shallow or exaggerated emotions.
Narcissistic personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.81): a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.

And then there is the psychopath.

NCR? is a problem with law.

Dave Beveridge

4/15/2018 08:10:19 am

I would like to use an analogy that might be a reason to be somewhat compassionate.
Let's say you see somebody walking down the street and they've got some sort of problem that makes them want to hit themselves every few minutes. You would look at this person and say that is horrible and I hope they can get some help so that they quit harming themselves. Now let's say this very same person instead of hitting themselves strikes out at those around him uncontrollably. Your immediate reaction might be that is horrible that person belongs behind bars or segregated from society and must be an evil person.
I am married to such a person and currently getting a divorce. The Common Sense part of me says two things that I must get as far away as possible in in order to be healthy the other part says I'm married to this person who has many incredible positive traits but seems to have little or no awareness of her problem. If I try to bring up any issues surrounding this personality disorder things go badly. At times when things are calm she does seem to have some slight awareness of what problem she might be creating but under most circumstances she will cross lines that normal people would never do and simply does not understand why there is a problem. It is absolutely devastating to me financially and emotionally as my wife and her kids have had many incredible experiences in the last 14 years to finally realize what was going on. Little twists on words and phrases and arguments in the future that are turned around to be my fault which I just accepted as I did not want to rock the boat any further. Then one day she was berating me for something undeservedly and I noticed a pattern and thought about many things in the past and all of a sudden it was like a switch was turned on and I saw the light and my world crashed around me. I have a brother with mild Asperger's which also seems to distort reality and their perception of it. My brother does have some slight awareness of his disorder but laughs it off and says it's part of what made me who I am. He is a surgeon with many businesses a great family and and I could not ask for a better brother as he is a generous and very fair person. I have found many similarities with narcissism and Asperger's with regards to distortions them of reality. But that's where it stops he is a very intelligent motivated kind human being where is my wife has the ability seemingly to simulate this but basically has an evil streak that I am not sure has a limit. Yippee I won the lottery on this one.

9/16/2018 04:50:59 am

What a load of toot. Have you never been at the hand of a Narcissist.

3/31/2015 05:42:07 pm

exactly !

Dave Beveridge

9/16/2018 06:36:52 am

Toot yes. Glad you called BS cause thats what it is. I look back at the sudden realization and shock of what I was dealing with. It took me some time to understand the true depth of the abyss these people have, I suspect it is bottomless.S. I had no idea, other than movies,that these people are amoung us, and I married one???? My sympathy is gone and I use the word human loosely.

K. Swanson

4/1/2015 10:14:33 am

I fully agree with you, Kat, we spend all of our energy dealing with the never ending dysfunction. No energy left to give to an uncaring, hateful, and immoral individual!

K. Swanson

4/4/2015 03:19:14 pm

They evidently never experienced it. Maybe reading in a book only. A person who was experienced would never recommend such a foolish action.

Diana Valentine link

7/30/2015 02:55:57 pm

its not just you who suffers, but your children. The price I paid for my empathy and revolving like a satellite around a demon, my children suffered for.

grace

4/9/2015 12:22:46 am

Thank you for making that point!! What they inflict and project onto others is unfathomable...get into a narcissistic abuse support group online and they'd be astounded by the consequences of such an infliction upon others, and many contemplating suicide. Too Often there are those who've had to be coaxed by supporters to hang on for one more day and then there are days where one states that she's just climbed out of the window with all she has on and what little cash she has and I'd running! All anyone can do is cheer her on and HOPE that we will hear from her again. You can't TEACH a narcissist to have empathy and if they lack that capacity via brain matter, all that would be done is teaching them how to master their facade!

K Swanson

4/9/2015 05:37:03 am

Thanks for the excellent input.

Dianne

2/27/2017 11:03:52 pm

Well said. They don't have the hardware or wiring to do anything good. Their hardware and wiring is circuited for evil only. They tried therapy for cluster b npd prisoners. It worked great to make a monster and even bigger monster. It teaches them even more ways on how to abuse and harm others. Narcissists are getting away with murder. Soul murder. And if they are sociopath psychopaths then the real murder. They get caught. Soul murderers walk freely to destroys many lives with no accountability. So sad our society can't do more. The damage they do is unimaginable. Sick. Evil creatures.

Katrina

4/22/2015 02:34:51 am

Because you nitwit, people with NPD exist. We are human and yes we feel. Its extremely hard living a life where no one can emotional connect with you. It's not an evil versus good ideology here. There are subconscious reasons to our behavior. We our constantly on guard of being attacked so we attack to extreme out of the distortion that its personnel protection and that's because it was the only way some of us could survive extreme abuse and/or neglect as children due to growing up being protected by no one

K Swanson

4/22/2015 11:24:30 am

You cannot expect the rest of us to deal with such cold calculated viciousness especially when they say how much pleasure they get out of inflicting pain, lying, being vicious cold-blooded snakes!

Denise

10/4/2016 08:54:04 pm

My brother is one and my mom. Neither were abused. Both of them are abusers. If you were abused stop the cycle. Don't go in life abusing people with your sickness. Abusing a choice. Instead of abusing others why don't you abuse yourself.

sora

10/6/2016 03:32:20 pm

Katrina
that it is.
how can we expect to show empathy from someone who never received it. He cannot give, he simply does not know what it is.
And most of the behaviour is subconscious. If at all a Narc is able to go to therapy it is very very very difficult and painfull since the narc must be confronted with the pain he emotionally didn ot survice. A child which is so much abused and neglected is not able to litterally die, so on a very early age it developes self protective behaviors to be able to cope, since the child is very young it can never really come out since he was to young to know that it is not the normal way. Once one really knows the causes, the severe neglet abuse, the severe pains and fears a Narc has, how can he still hurt you then? He cant.... just as a toddler will not hurt me by his selfish behavior. And that is where they are emotionally.

Harry

5/12/2017 12:32:49 am

Lol, ah yes. The narcissist's sob story. Of course you feel - for yourselves alone. It's your lack of feeling for anyone who's not you that's the problem. As to your sorry little tale about childhood abuse, plenty of people have abusive childhoods, and they don't grow up to become the nightmares you people are. And what about the people who have to deal with your abuse? You bleat that you deserve pity and sympathy because of your tragic sob story, yet you expect people to overlook the abuse you deal out to them? And what if the person you're mistreating has been abused too? Did it ever occur to you that people have their own shit to deal with and the last thing they need is some selfish little princess dumping herself and all her petty little problems on them too because she's deluded enough to believe her life has been so uniquely hard and painful, and her suffering has been worse than anyone else's? The pain of people who have to deal with your shit is far worse than anything you've dealt with. Also, it's standard wisdom that when someone tells you a sob story to justify their abuse, take it with a pinch of salt. I find it hard to believe you've had it anywhere near as hard as you're so pathetically trying to make people believe. You people need to be avoided. You've provided a great example of exactly how selfish and self-absorbed you are.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:09:38 pm

My husband was not abused. Sounds like you are playing poor victim.

SURVIVOR2

11/29/2017 03:31:02 pm

But you're not a child anymore..

Laurie

12/3/2017 09:46:10 pm

Yes, NPD assholes feel, they feel hate, jealousy, rage. Anyone that can lie their whole life, manipulate from an early age and just get better at it, abuse everyone around them including their own children, does not deserve to have any breaks. Brain abnormalities is a good excuse, but when they can do all of the above, and come back with a smirk on their face, blank eyes, and say to you, I can’t believe you believe that about me. Our precious angels from hell.

Judy

12/17/2017 02:13:49 am

So the way you deal with it is to pass the abuse on to others? Great plan! Maybe your experience should have taught you to never treat others the way you have been treated. You are no longer a child, you are now responsible for your own actions.

Karyne

4/24/2018 02:24:53 am

Grow up, if you know this much about your own disorder then you can get help to fix it, just like any other responsible adult. What you have written
is a justification for your actions which you most definitely have control over. You also demonstrate a sense of entitlement which means you would
never be willing to change. Your words will never convince a seasoned victim that you yourself are a victim. But I'll do you a favour you don't
deserve, be honest, be truthful, that's all it takes. Read 'Dispelling Wetiko' by Paul Levy. Oh, and by the way, how do you think children of abuse
narcs should take what you have written? Most were badly abused but most chose not to abuse innocent others because they knew it was very wrong.

Kristine

9/16/2018 07:16:45 am

Omg. You want us to have compassion for you and your defense mechanisms? You all know exactly what you’re doing and refuse to control it, bc you get a high from destroying others... it makes you feel accomplished, powerful and protected from others harming you first. You’re immoral, evil and it’s utterly inexcusable. You have the choice of leaving normal people alone to live in peace, but you choose to destroy others bc you refuse to control your behaviors and addictive need to feel powerful.. You desire understanding and empathy for you and your kind, but give none to the people you ruin. SMH...

Diana Valentine link

7/30/2015 02:50:48 pm

Amen! To empathize as I did, being an Empath, nearly destroyed me.

Judy

9/7/2015 07:57:47 pm

amen!

Judy Cook

9/8/2015 03:55:00 am

Dear lord 1%? HOW in the heck do I keep finding them? I must have something wrong with me 😢 I just got out of 15 year relationship with a narcissistic ass and I still feel sorry for him

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:13:15 pm

Look up Lisa Romano. Its not us it's our childhood programming. My mother was a narc and I married one. I didn't know it was abnormal. It's easily fixed.

Heather

12/26/2017 11:24:04 pm

No way it's only 1% - they only found enough who would come forward (somehow) that it APPEARS to be 1% statistically. I'd say more like 25%!

Mimi

1/31/2016 04:03:42 pm

No everyone should be applaud for unruly behavior
Donald Trump is narcissistic, no one would applaud for him. You just dont get it, everyone has their own personality disorder that acts out on their own behavior and no one is dying of this disorder so why say "survive" as if you had breast cancer.
Lots of celebrities have this disorder but people dont know or realize it cause no one cares, they act ignorant and are attention seekers.
Your arent dying, who cares?
Most people dont find ways to improve on their life disorder or not, thats like saying i should be nice to people with disorders not knowing they have one nor should one care cause in reality its how you present yourself and bahavior
Thats why most people dont like or respect one another

Sharkradical

3/19/2016 09:58:00 am

look out everyone, we got a live one

the irony is palpable, although, in your mind I'm sure there is no irony, this is simply the best place for a feed.

Denise

10/4/2016 07:45:08 pm

I get annoyed when I see people mention trump is one. There is the npd and there is the character trait that's not a mental disorder. Get it right. The disorder is evil and sick. The trait is just arrogance. While that may be annoying it's not even close to the evil destructive disordered people with npd

Dianne

2/27/2017 11:11:20 pm

Their abuse can kill you. If they don't kill you first hand their abuse will because long term affects of Narc abuse creates illness. Yes. Cancer and a host of other awful auto immune disorders. Because the victim is being abused by the Narc. So yes. It's survival when you escape a narcissists. You survived. You escaped and you healed. And healing us long long process. If you haven't experiencrd it first hand then don't try to make an ignorant statement that surviving is the wrong term. Living with a Narc is pure hell and they are killing you slowly with their abuse.

Dave Beveridge

5/14/2017 07:23:13 pm

Funny I agree with you and also had failed attempt at suicide. Was quite serious attempt but didn't have courage to do it..Harder than you think. But I agree after much thought about various ways people can deal with things. It is a system that seems to work for them although painful for those around them. I noticed almost anything said about NPD is vicious, condemning and not unbiased. If people are correct about internal pain and turmoil of these people I would like solutions rather than condemnation. I think there is a human in my wife and want a way to make us better. I take marriage seriously and feel duty (wife still projects some great attributes) to help but was the marriage a fraud perpetrated on me?

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:16:22 pm

That's interesting. I just mailed a survey card in to President Trump and checked off all my issues. In the fill in other box I said Narcissism! It's everywhere and NOT taught in universities. (I think intentionally).

sora

10/6/2016 03:09:33 pm

It is just simple: even Narcissists are humens, they are sick, they did not cause their own sickness, they have been made sick in the first years of their live usually due to severe abuse (physical, phycological...) or trauma, usually by their parents. They have undergone so much pain that they could not bear it anymore, and their brain have "buried" their own personality and "created" the fals one, this fals one cannot empatise, it is brain damage, they never had the change to develope a normal brain, the brain development has stuck at the age of a toddler, emotional development too. I cannot understand why people with other sicknesses, as cancer, or depression or PTSD should get empathie, but NPDs not only because it is more difficult to cope with their symptoms. Only severe pain, severe abuse and trauma can cause such a broken human. And this must have happend over a long period of time. The abuse must have been in the very early childhood, often of both parents or all responsible people. The pain they have gone throug as small children ist unimaginable. Now they cause pain, yes. But to learn about the causes and that this humans are not even AWARE that other people feel differently, they do not know it at all, because they never had the chance to develop and feel real love, real empathy, real fear, real joy .... this people deserve no empathy? Usually this people are no killers or rapist or so. They cannot be blamed for their disorder just as cancer people or people who are in a wheelchair did not cause the sickness. They deserve love and empathy. Of course to live with a Narc is not easy and often it is necessary to go "no contact" to protect oneself and children. But still they deserve awareness of what happend to them and they deserve research and help.
And I know what I am talking about. I am a survivor, 18 years experience! I did not go "not contact" after I learnd a lot about NPD, he cannot anymore hurt or destroy me, since I know he is not aware, he is just broken as nothing else, he dies not have this symptomes for pleasure. No a Narc never really feels ok, feels comfortable. One can go along with it, and learn to cope, learn to react differently on him. A Narc will never have the chance to feel what we feel, but they are able to learn with time and a lot of love to chance some of their behaviors. They ARE possibilites, they ARE relativly new ways of Psychotherapy for them, new, different ones.
It is difficult, it is hard, it takes a long time. At the end it is a small abused child in the body of a grown up and this child needs love, nurishing and empathy, then it can develop very very little more on the emotional side. I have expereinced it. It can become a little better!

Stephen

10/6/2016 03:58:58 pm

Well, this is all nicely said. I can tell you that I suffered hell for decades with my narc mum, it took such bad proportions in my life, spoiled the whole of my childhood, she stole my most beautiful years as a child.
And yet I still talk to her, I just know the limits but the goal of the rest of my life won't be to fix someone who damaged my life it is to catch up, find the balance that I never had before, keep growing, heal the rest of the wounds because i have one life and noone had the right to hurt me and yet they did.
I won't hurt her although she always tries to hurt me but my goal is my life in the world, spiritual growth and deep peace. I now know what happiness is, noone will take that again from me. I'm sorry but I am a good man but I won't sacrifice the rest of my life to fix someone again who damaged me for nearly half a century.

Sora

10/9/2016 05:38:16 am

@Stephan

I agree with you. If it is possible to distance is also goid.
To have empathy and do "no contact" must not contradict themself. One may have to protect one self but I still do not see them as wicked since they have damage in brain and psychological Deep damagae cause due severe trauma.
Sometimes though it is not possible to go no contact. In some country if children are there you cannot go totally no contact because you cannot take the kids away from the Narc neither is it easy to proof the bad influence to the authoroties. Sometimes the narc can maniPulte that way that the kids even stay with him.
Also is this personality disorder a spectrum and it cannot be compared.
There are ways to cope better if no contact is not possibe or if it might even not be wanted.
My wish is to see this people as sick human not as evrl devils. That does not mean to stay with thEM but to put the medication evidence into concideration.

Lovie

1/3/2017 10:21:12 pm

Oh yeah. Just love them harder and they will get better. 🙄🙄. Sounds like someone's been brainwashed into jumping through hoops

Denise

1/16/2017 08:42:22 pm

Being abused is not a free pass to abuse others. Plenty of people been abused but don't grow up and decide to abuse others. Narcissists choose to abuse. They are filthy sociopaths. Killers even. Go ahead and love a narcissist. Report back how that went after you have been destroyed and abused.

Harry

5/12/2017 12:37:36 am

Actually, abuse is only one possible cause of narcissism, and even then, only if the person is already lacking empathy. Most people who've been abused are far less likely to abuse than others because they know first hand how horrible it is. If abuse leads you to become a narcissists, it's because you were already lacking empathy. And the other possible cause of narcissism is if someone has been coddled and pampered too much, as in their lives have been far too easy. If you want to put yourself in an abusive situation to "save" someone, that's on you. But a vulnerable person reading this could then decide to stay with an abusive narc, and that could have fatal results, but I doubt you'd care about that as long as you can pat yourself on the back for what a saint you are for feeling sorry for abusers.

Raven

10/3/2017 10:29:50 am

Completely agree. As a covert Narcissist, I would give anything for a cure. I do not want to be what I am. And yet it is like a monkey signing (American Sign Language) he wants to be human, or a Parrot stating she wants to be a human. Both animals may state their wishes to be another animal, and yet, they are what they are. I want to be a non-narcissist, and (by Definition), when I become overly compassionate (without my Narcissistic Supply) I dissociate. I literally derealize or have a derealization episode. Feel free to understand what that is like here...
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depersonalization-derealization-disorder/home/ovc-20318895 It is not fun at all. I am not blaming anyone. AND in English when I attempt to become compassionate without sufficient NS (to feed my impoverished self) there is by definition, No self. In other words, I cease to exist. I can and have literally walked around and acted like a robot at times. Semi-aware (or unaware) of what was happening but unable to consciously do anything about it. When I "let go" of my "Narcissitc Parts" (as a former Internal Family Systems Therapist I used to have would say) I no longer exist and become a robot or non-human. I, however, am not Evil. I pray to GOD (if there is one) to heal me of this spiritual disorder. It is not my intention to rob or steal anyone's spiritual energy at all. (On the flip side, when I am in a great space, the entire world knows it and I radiate / project goodness and joy to all people that are around me). I am praying for a miracle, and practicing loving kindness meta-meditation on a daily basis. I wish peace and joy to all. Sincerely, Raven

I would not wish this experience on anyone. I want to be empathetic. Here is the thing, I am a Narcissist with self-awareness. I would physically give my left arm to be rid of this disease.

And yes, I am human.

I have a compassionate profession.

Heather

12/26/2017 11:35:08 pm

Mine was not abused nor were many others. Sorry for them that there is some sort of biological cause of their condition, but the devastation they cause to so many innocent lives and their ability to conceal themselves from everyone but their victims AND avoid treatment? I can only laugh remembering what my children and I have survived - and yes, I mean survived! It was unbelievable. One of my daughters lost her education - he didn't allow her to attend school and I could do nothing about it! Unfortunately I'm an American living in Egypt with my Egyptian husband who is most definitely a narc. The laws of church, state and society here are on his side - and they know exactly what he is! The church itself has fallen victim to him!

I wish there was a way to help Narcs, but MANY will have died inside by the time you catch just ONE narc and ATTEMPT to help them. And they don't want help - they already believe they are perfect, so why fix what's not broken?

Katarina

2/17/2018 01:31:40 am

A narcissist CAN have a chance to feel what we feel. But he has to conquer his own pride. Pride which covers his sufferings. And here lays a difference between the one who suffered a lot and survived without being a narcissist and the one who developed it. In order to heal one ought to show vulnerability that only God can heal. No other psychotherapy can help. Because pride, insolent pride not to be like others, is the number one obstacle in narcissist´s healing, no matter how internally he may suffer. Everyone of them has a lot of chances to meet people in life, good people who show them love, genuine love , compensatory love for what they suffered and terribly missed as little children. But there must be something which hinders them from being liberated. It is this pride. Until they humble themeselves before God, they can not feel LOVE. God can´t give them new feeling heart...because, no matter what you say scientifically, narcissism is spiritual disease and we ALL are diseased by it to some degree...until we are born again and helped by our Saviour.

Michelle

6/11/2018 04:35:56 pm

My narc mil was her mother's favorite child. Her own sister warned me, "when Anna doesn't get her way, she will make you miserable". So yes I can see how spoiled children become narcs. I remember her smirks when she had her evil victories. And yes, she played victim with great talent.

Kate

10/7/2016 06:16:35 am

neuroplasticity can work

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:20:53 pm

My husband yells and screams at me. He calls that compassion. He is compassionate about blaming me and anyone else and not taking responsibility.

Katarina link

1/7/2018 11:24:20 am

To Raven

I feel you are speaking the truth. From my own experience wit a man very similar to you. I am very sorry I couldnt indure daily misunderstangings, I tried SO hard to explain everything I could to make things better not worse.To love more, to love till the end...but maybe I still have lessons to learn... ...I know about the flashbacks of trying him to improve himself. And I also know he believed in God. And he tired to do things right, according to Godš law...but is this sufficient, when you don´t FEEL??...when the heart doesn´t SEE??? Once , when I asked him what is his goal in life, /mine would be neverending love so I really a lot want to improve in it/ I heard him saying"... just to return to where I came from..".I felt heartrache, ..and so sad.
Dear Raven, I believe, ANY disease is treatable and one and only condition which anyone with any disease must take to consideration when want to be healed is -to be humble. Be humble and submitt do God, Jesus . Because, as you problably know, Narcissism is a spiritual disease, not only misconception in human brain. There is a lot we still dont know , but this is true. Otherwise the great song AMAZING GRACE would never originate. Wish you be the ONE among others to be blessed and redeemed. <3

Kellie

1/3/2017 05:48:13 pm

I totally agree. How can one empathize with a demon?

Jackie

4/6/2017 02:06:11 pm

I totally agree and deserve a gold medal.

Sarah link

4/13/2017 06:31:50 pm

I'm lucky to have escaped my ex with my life; not only is he a textbook malignant narcissist, after a drunken fall caused a skull fracture w/ brain damage, he truly became a soulless monster, even more sexually deviant, terrifying and dangerous in the extreme. I feel no empathy for him, not any longer. That way lies madness and death.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:22:10 pm

My husband had two strokes last year. He can't keep his mask on at all now. Its constant.

4/13/2017 08:16:16 pm

I couldn't have said it better myself! Why should we have empathy for their narcissistic crap? They choose to be selfish! And yes we deserve an award for surviving their wrath from Hell they inflict on all their victims!

Tammy hinton

4/25/2017 01:05:30 am

Amen

Janice

5/19/2017 09:35:27 pm

I am a victim of narcissism after 40 years of marriage and who would even think that these awful people would be capable of ever empathizing if I hadn't seen it in 40 years?

Narcslayer

6/5/2017 07:55:00 pm

Giving them empathy is what makes us their victims, I suggest giving them a guillotine that is triggered by the scan. I'd even volunteer to go first.

Gabe

7/19/2017 08:47:51 pm

This article is interesting and for me hopeful. Yes, my soon to be ex. but me through narcissistic hell and still is. No I am not looking for him to be saved. He made his choices. What I am hopeful for is my son, who is either copying his father or is also narcissistic. I can walk away from my marriage from hell but I cannot walk away from my son. Think about it, if brain scans were more common place, we could stop the problem before it starts.

Kerry

10/22/2017 07:06:07 pm

A person with narcissism did not choose to be that way and living a life where u hate the person you are is truly unbearable. Even if u have everything you love in life this disorder inhibits the persons ability to be happy. If u really hate yourself then life is a nightmare no matter whether you have everything to the outside world. This is why we deserve empathy and compassion because I would give everthing to be normal, happy and giving love and empathy to everyone. I hate feeling jealous of people that can truly be happy I'm their own skin and really have compassion and kindness!

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:26:37 pm

No. They chose and regret it. That's why they feel crappy. They prey on people who give love and empathy and we see it. They are also jealous. I have never been jealous except for someone who wasn't raised by narcissist. But I guess that makes me a professional. I see you.

Jane

1/31/2018 09:41:53 am

My husband of 10 years is on the narc spectrum. I’ve always known he needed more nurturing than most and was happy to give because loving someone raises my feel good hormones. But when he turns on me it hurts...a lot. Like I cry all night, contemplate death being a better option, and I threaten to leave.
So I’ve researched and am beginning to understand what you’re saying, Kerry.
I think he wants to feel love and peace so badly, and slipping into my skin is the closest he can get. People call this feeding and I can see that. A lot of times when I’m happy or successful, he’s like a boy who pulls wings off a bug-he emotionally knocks me down for the sheer pleasure of seeing me fall and cry. I sort of understand this too because my brother two years older than me was born brain damaged. He has never developed beyond an 18 month old baby. But physically he was stronger than most adults. As a small child, I grew up very confused that an older brother would hit me or hurt me and when I cried he would laugh. While there is a big difference in the narcissist brain and my brain damaged brother, the one correlation is there, and I can almost see a pleasure on my husband’s face when I cry.
I’ve read that because of the lack of feelings, they sometimes replace it with stimulation. Seeing me cry provides stimulation.
Also, I read an article that says that “psychopaths” have smaller amygdalas and respond better to reward than punishment, and I think I see that common denominator in my narc husband as well. He’s a successful businessman and feels really good when things are clicking along. But if someone gives him a punishment ultimatum (if you don’t stop we’re through) he usually answers without a care. That threat of punishment doesn’t register.
Now that I’m putting all of this together, I’m seeing it like this-my husband unfortunately has a brain anomaly that prevents him from experiencing compassion for himself and others. Deep inside he knows he’s different and desperately doesn’t want to be because even acknowledging the difference feels self hate and the opposite feeling of something positive like reward. Admitting he’s different only worsens the vacuum he lives in. So he lives in a place of constant self-defense to keep the vacuum at bay.
He has a strong degree of trust for me, which allows him to relax sometimes. But up until now, I’ve never known what triggers his defensive attacks and retreats. Others would see him as a monster. But essentially IMO he’s a lost boy with no compass.
Now that I think I can be more aware of what it might be going on, I’ll be watching and asking...Has too much time gone by since he’s gotten a gentle hug? Is it his inordinate jealousy if I tell a story about getting a lot of attention? Or maybe it’s something I know nothing of, like a person dissed him at work. When my narc husband reacts, it’s not a slight reaction, it’s like internal violence. I’ve always thought and said this is an extreme reaction. The only thing that seems to stop him is when I go into a lot of shouting. He seems to register the severity of his extreme tantrum only by my reaction. When I was a quiet victim, he didn’t get feedback and didn’t know where to stop. Now that I’m shouting (without real emotion), he stops his tirad sooner.
I understand a lot of the posters who are screaming RUN because even with as much understanding and compassion as I have, I’m not sure how much more time and energy I can give. My personal plans for the future are on hold because I’m constantly (metaphorically) handing my narc vampire husband my wrist and then lying down to recover the loss of blood. I don’t hate him for his unfortunate situation and I fear his pain will grow so much more worse if I leave, but I must find a way to fulfill my own destiny and not just be a blood bag.
Wish me luck. You all know how this is. I’m obviously not in hell right now. And I feel somewhat optimistic that I can find a balance and take care of myself and my husband. Otherwise I will sadly have to go.

Zilverb

11/14/2017 08:06:51 pm

Thanks, Kat! You are an angel!

Nothanks

12/4/2017 06:05:08 am

"surviving"? More like existing. Unfortunately. I'd have been better off meeting a serial killer instead.

Dee Dee

1/13/2018 08:12:03 am

Dr. these ppl are so difficult, i come from a family of narcs, theres no hope. We must place them in the hands of GOD not in the hands of another human being.

Vanessa Winchester

1/13/2018 11:43:19 pm

Yes, absolutely correct. People with BPD, HPD, sociopaths, psychopaths, etc all have a legitimate illness and its not questioned or subjected to its validity

Vanessa Winchester

1/14/2018 02:43:09 am

Absolutely, no one should ever encourage someone and especially not a victim, a survivor of narcissistic abuse, that they should have empathy for the narcissist! Unfortunately, there are currently many professionals who aren't educated, familiar, or aware and well frankly are just clueless, as to the extent of abuse and damage it causes, that people with this disorder inflict on the victims and deliberately. They do it with complete joy because its their main objective, the victims only purpose for having been targeted by the narc from day one. So if the professional that is sought out for help by the victim is not trained specifically in trauma abuse and also educated in npd and the debilitating damage this kind of abuse causes the victims, then the victim stands a very good chance of being (unintentionally) victimised again and by the person they've sought for help. The advise to emphasize with their abuser and your ok, shake it off attitude they may find given to them could and would be extremely detrimental to the wellbeing and safety of an sbuse victim. Regardless of anything else, the safety and wellbeing of the victim is the priority. Yes, its unfortunate that this happened to the narc and we, more than anyone, wish it weren't the case but we can't have anymore empathy or give anymore excuses to the narc at our expense at all, ever again! Its like having your soul raped over and over and over again, relentlessly. No matter how much crying or begging or pleading, on your knees in agony, please just stop the pain you're causing me, they don't, won't. In fact, thats right where they want us. On the brink of death, metaphorically speaking, so they can pull us back just enough and give us just enough (crumbs) compassion, as to let them continue to abuse us more, for years, a lifetime if we let them. Some say the narc is unaware of what they are doing to the victims and that they cant control it, well don't believe that for a second. They are able to not mistreat us in the first months of the relationship, they are able to treat us respectfully and caringly when out in public together or when trying to win us back after callously discarding us for someone else. They know to hide their true evil self and abuse from the rest of the world, so they know right from wrong and can control their behavior and also they csn CHOOSE their actions. Yes, they don't feel things the same as we do and with very low or few cognitive functions, how they perceive and experience life is much different than it is for us. What it comes down to is "free will" and this they do have. They can most definitely choose not to hurt us, really they don't have to hurt us, or abuse us but they choose to because they want to, they don't care. They should be avoided at all cost, they never have good intentions and they can NOT BE TRUSTED EVER and everything that comes from their mouth is a lie, make no mistake about it.

April

1/25/2018 08:50:58 pm

I’m surviving a divorce from a narcissist. But I’m very interested in this because I’m concerned about my daughter who may have inherited her dads pathology. I want to change her brain...

Kimberly

11/23/2018 11:33:34 pm

How is your daughter? Check out the YouTube channel from surviving to thriving. Michelle has a video about how she helped her daughter after leaving her narc husband. God be with you.

kathleen m Oshea

2/15/2018 07:42:31 am

Yes Carl is correct. These people not all bur many are criminal ABUSIVE and they feel they are entitled to ruin people and dystroy people. What we need now is assist those who have been victimized by these animals. I also think 1 percent of the population is a low ball figure.

Sherri Cox

2/15/2018 09:42:08 am

Little Shaman Healer on You Tube describes Narcissism very simply and has helped me tremendously. Also, Lisa A. Roman life coach is a lifesaver. This needs to be taught in school now!

Shirley

4/15/2018 07:20:42 am

😲 omg narsisist are there’s Many words for them. They ruin your life, there violent , all self,it’s me me me. Boring talk about them selves can go on for hours they exhaust you mentally physically. They make you mentallyill because they have had a bad life they blame others nasty horrible evil in every way they are capable of murder I survived one I was married to the monster vile violent bastard

Aggelos Grace Aggellou

9/3/2018 11:28:09 am

I almost died. I become at the edge that I wanted to hurt myself. The survivors from a person with NPD needs to be applauded. Thak God. All the reading I did on the topic helped me too much. But I quit trying to help the person. I undestood that to help him out of this was something out of my range.

Erin

1/18/2019 05:06:18 pm

Exactly!

Greg Bernstein link

7/5/2014 01:53:09 am

@ jc. My exact thoughts! Greg Bernstein

K. Swanson

4/1/2015 10:20:44 am

Not hating them, Marjorie Murphy, just that they typically do not see any point in improving...they think they are fine just and have no guilt in destroying their mates or childlrlen. Unless a person has lived with such a person they cannot see how destructive a person with NPD is to the person(s) with whom they are in a relationship. You spend all of your energy struggling from one senseless attack to another senseless attack. They launch never ending attacks and they enjoy every evil moment of such! It is ALL about them.

Katrina

4/22/2015 03:04:58 am

FYI Remember that 1% of the population has NPD. My guess considering the statistics is that not ONE of you has met someone with NPD but has instead gotten burned by relationships in part by the lack of personnel awareness and accountability creating the persona and identity of a victim complete. Have yourself the pity party and once that's done point your finger at the other and accuse them unwavering NPD. So, what now? You've become the victim so that automatically makes you all Dr.'s of pathological psychiatry? This is what's wrong with stagnant thoughts of the intellectually stunted. The fact that you all claim to know of the existence of the problem effecting people who might be unaware of the "evil" people coming into the lives of the rest of the "good" to destroy, yet you all refuse to acknowledge that to find the meaning behind it to correct it is beneath you.. Well.....no wonder you were all easy targets for victimizing. Your whole mindset is profusely irritating at best

K Zilverberg

4/22/2015 11:26:57 am

Making up scenarios such as you are doing, Katrina, is another hallmark of NPD. If the person with NPD is such an innocent individual then they would go get help at least when the family requests it of them. However, they refuse. They can see the damage they do onto others. However, they continue to refuse. It is never ending alibis and lies.

Katrina

4/22/2015 01:45:54 pm

Im making an educated guess which for most accounts I'm usually on the ball with. There's no such thing as an innocent amongst the whole adult human race. And instead of trying to eliminate a problem, to correct a problem for future sociological growth for the better, all I see is a bunch of bitterness banning together in search of the devil , wherever they want to find it. Not a single thing mentioned to try and break a cycle so there's no more of it's existence. So stagnant they shall be and stagnant that they shall stay.

Sharon

9/7/2015 10:35:36 am

Katrina - true rambling of a narcissist.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:33:18 pm

They are not very smart. What the heck? I am going to stop engaging with Katrina she is getting a kick out of it. Unbelievable.

Lovie

1/3/2017 10:23:13 pm

Your mask is slipping Katrina.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:31:16 pm

Your so, so smart! It's more like 60 or 70 percent because of the church. We see you. We have to fight against two three or more against you because your... well you like to cheat and fight unfair.

Katrina

4/22/2015 01:52:46 pm

FYI K. Swanson yes I do expect EVERYONE to deal with it. Wanna know how? Never ever stay silent when you see or even expect neglect. Never let abuse take place and have knowledge of it. Protect the most defenseless of your community because children don't have the choice to really protect themselves or the capacity to find unconditional love somewhere else.

K Swanson

4/23/2015 02:14:23 am

Katrina: The problem is that except for a tiny amount of the NPD people, the NPD person typically refuses any and all recovery. They refuse any form or fashion of rehabilitating help. The rest of us can do nothing for them. Sticking around and feeling sorry for more of the same is not acceptable. Sticking around for more of the never ending horrors that NPD people dish out is not acceptable. Additionally, the NPD person does not care how much damage they inflict upon other people who are in their path. It isn't likely that folks of any age or status are going to welcome, to smile happily and to say please execute more ongoing abuse, neglect, and so forth.

Katrina

4/23/2015 11:03:07 am

K. Swanson.....you didn't even read my post, did you? Cause there is a source to the problem which I clearly wrote down. And I am well aware of what NPD looks like, probably a lot better than you. Don't get in a huff or take that in a deeming way, but trust me, I do. Let me tell you a little something about the human condition.....if what doesn't effect them in some way, and which will cause discomfort for themselves and upheaval if interjected, people will most likely turn a blind eye because ignorance is bliss.

Diana link

9/7/2015 11:01:37 am

Absolutely! Children are innocent and narcs easily manipulate them. My oldest son has extremely low confidence. My youngest has been diagnosed w ODD/ADHD. I had to pay out of pocket over $850, for a full eval., to include IQ,Dyslexia, motor skills.... The works.
I am also in DBT class.
Dialectical Behavior Therapy.
It helps me to stay emotionally regulated. It helps me to protect my empathic abilities, and to stay in the moment. Don't look to the past, nor future. Don't look at everything in catastrophic outcome.
All of this from being manipulated and gas lighted for 16 years. This experience goes way beyond bitterness, jealousy, or anger over divorce.

9/11/2015 06:31:10 pm

I get what you're saying. Many many children are abused and traumatized and people look the other way. A percentage of these kids are being conditioned to have NPD, because they are going to develop that as a coping mechanism to survive their horrifying abuse for years as an innocent child. Many mothers and fathers look the other way when their children are being hurt, or they themselves are perpetrating against their own children. Society is in denial about this. We need to acknowledge the widescale epidemic of childhood abuse, if we are going to stop the creation of more adults with NPD. I agree. It's got to stop.

Robin Cuahonte

12/17/2015 08:42:12 am

Standing ovation! Great words.

Harry

5/12/2017 12:46:34 am

Actually, most children who've been abused are less likely to abuse because they know how horrible it is. And it's been proven that abusers will lie and cry about their "terrible" childhoods to justify the shit they do. Mistreating others is a choice you made, and it's not on others to feel very very sorry for poor precious you. That attitude is straight out of the abuser's playbook. Every abuser cries that they've had it so uniquely hard that they should get a special pass for treating people like shit. What about the people who have to deal with your crap? They're being abused by you, but they're not turning around and abusing others. If you can't see the utter stupidity of expecting people to "stop" abuse, but at the same time manipulating them into dealing with your abuse, because you mistakenly think you've had it so much harder, there's no hope for you. I'm happy to help stop abuse - by warning people about the likes of you and the manipulative tricks you pull so they can avoid you.

Harry

5/12/2017 12:42:19 am

Lol, nice try Katrina, but plenty of people become narcissists because they've been far too coddled and pampered all their lives. Their idea of being "neglected" is if everyone doesn't revolve around them and make them the centre of the universe 100% of the time. People who've actually had it hard don't talk the way you do. I suspect you're real issue is that your life has been far too easy, and you've never had any real problems. No, the people here are not going to allow abuse to take place. You know how? By warning them about people like you so they can stay the hell away from you and your lies and sob stories. Other people's safety is far more important than your precious ego.

Dave Beveridge

5/14/2017 07:49:21 pm

Katrina you are awesome. I look for some insight on living with or helping another human and see nothing but negative stuff. I understand the pain they cause personally. Yes for many maybe run but I hesitate. I am a reasonably solid person that probably made my wife's NPD life hell as well. ;) If there is some way to connect I would like to try. I have risen above the pain and hurt because as a package they have no choice on the way they act. Yes they might be aware of what they are doing but also aware of consequences of not acting that way. She has kids that are great and they survived reasonably undamaged. For that fact alone she is not subhuman as she diverted bad traits in other directions. ****ANYBODY HAVE POSITIVE IDEAS EMAIL ME.**** dave(at)beveridges(dot)net . I have run some bizarre ideas through my head so open to anything.

K Swanson

4/24/2015 07:17:50 am

Hi Katrina, I did read your post. Here is a good site for you to review so you can better understand NPD. I am pretty sure that you have not experienced this disorder because you would not be philosophizing. Here is a pretty good site for you to review.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

Sincerely yours,
hugs,

K.

K Swanson

4/24/2015 01:12:38 pm

Becca Steps

7/8/2015 03:44:41 am

I found this article intriguing but I fail to see the irony of how we should be finding empathy for these individuals in the future. They have no empathy which is sad, yes. But at the same time I cannot find empathy for someone who is viciously going out of their way to destroy me and my life any chance they get. Who holds me hostage and tries to break down my spirit everytime I have to interact with them. There is also the question of how can you have empathy for someone who feeds off of empathy? It is precisely that trait that causes these people to choose their victims. The more compassionate and empathetic the victim, the easier to target. So by being empathetic towards these individuals is giving them more power than they deserve and likely won't appreciate and use to their advantage anyways. If the person who wrote this article knew what true NPD was they wouldn't being saying that in the future we will ironically empathize with the Narcissist. The only empathy I have is the sad reality that these people miss out on so much life by acing the way they do but as far as allowing these personality types to know that you have empathy for them is just another nail in the coffin. You might as well have a neon sign flashing over your head that reads "TARGET!"

9/11/2015 06:36:10 pm

I think Katrina is trying to say that childhood abuse, which many people turn a blind eye to, is the root cause of the adult who then becomes someone with NPD. If we want fewer adults wreaking havoc on our lives, then we as a society need to stop looking the other way as young children are being terribly abused. That is what creates NPD --- a percentage of those kids are going to grow up furious and vindictive adults.

12/17/2015 08:44:15 am

👏!

Kat C.

9/28/2015 03:12:29 pm

Becca Steps I have never heard the conundrum as to how we're supposed to help NPD individuals expressed as well as you just did !!!!!!!!
_________________________________
Also,.. recent studies have uncovered that their brains are formed differently. You can't make someone grow a missing toe, curing the deficient parts of a disordered brain has not been possible.

Since what they do is mostly not illegal they do not have to suffer any real consequences. There is no moral courtroom for them to fear where a Judge can make them pay for their behavior. The more they get away with the stronger they feel.

Personally I don't think anyone should be able to post any comments here about narcissism unless you've lived with one and/or found yourself under the shoe of one and have done the research on the disorder.

12/17/2015 08:43:44 am

👏

Denise

9/14/2016 11:22:34 pm

Agreed!! Npd is what ALL sociopaths have. These people are sick and ruining lives and getting away with it. They need to be held accountable and punished. Narcissist traits are not necessarily the disorder. The disorder is dangerous. It's evil. It's the devil

Denise

10/4/2016 09:00:04 pm

Amen. These people are destructive. And someone with npd has other cluster b disorders. It isn't just npd that they have. Is a spectrum of distrusts they have. They are evil as evil gets. Sick. You have no choice but to get away from them. They don't even know they are sick. And what they do is bad and vicious. They are sociopaths!! .

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:52:36 pm

I was raised by narcissist. I married two narcissist. I am going to group therapy for Co-Dependency every week. I am taking a class starting March for Narcissism and Co-dependency (we put others before our own self) I read daily my face book group by Lisa Ramono about narcissist abuse. I am starting to think the Native American Indians figured it out. How (How) blocking and feeling the energy by putting your hand out to feel out these people . Ancient people called them Jin and Jeanies. Then Vampires then ego maniacs then psychopaths maniacs and now Cluster B and Narcissist. They are just low level low energy. They can't create and it pisses them off. Thanks for listening.

Janet DeWitt

1/16/2017 08:04:26 pm

WOW!
Very well put Becca!
It's all about the Narcissist getting their supply, or fueling their addiction!
It took me 50+ years to figure out what was going on!
The more I overlooked her abuse toward me, friends, family members, & tried to minimize the spewing venom that came out of her, the bigger target I became, & the more much needed supply she received from me!
Now I have learned to be immmune to the ugly, demeaning verbiage, never reveal anything that's personal, or emotional, & keep all contact, & conversations as brief as possible! It is all meaningless banter, most of them have no goals, or direction in life, & spend most of their time ruminating, & plotting how to play one person, or family member against the other!
It is a huge time waster in your life, & get on with positive people who love you for you, & not what they want to steal from you i.e. character assassination!

Elizabeth

12/17/2015 12:39:59 am

Like they say "Use it or lose it!"

The Narcissist's Scapegoat link

6/19/2017 08:35:49 am

HI everyone, I'm just back from a year without internet due to PTSD from discovering the extend in which my parents were covert and how badly they had been slandering me to cover their misdeeds and dark secrets. Use it or lose it is right, but usually that takes a motivator. My father is a psychopath but once he was sent to prison at 65 and came out of the closet after falling in love with a pedophile (no surprise here) he actually began to show some signs of deeper feeling. So it might be they never felt any love as children whatsoever. I did, mainly from my brother, who the narcs finally killed via heart attack at the ripe old age of 44. Check my youtube channel for the whole story, I should be back on it this week after a year of absence.

Katie

12/17/2015 06:14:54 pm

Survivor here. Deep in the throws of legal to try and protect my children. No sympathy.

Larry

12/17/2015 09:41:15 pm

All of you who have swalled the bitter pill of deception read up. God has the answer for you suffering souls. It's called SPIRITUAL WAREFARE. WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD BUT THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS. Get some spiritual guidance and you will Be able to find life again. Get your joy back and move to higher ground.

Kris

8/21/2016 02:19:27 pm

Larry, I became a born again Christian during the death throws of my 20 year marriagw to a covert narcissist. While that gave me strength to make a better life outside that marriage, I still have to deal wirh the PTSD, anxiety and distrust that resulted from years of narcissistic abuse. The healing takes place gradually as I come to know God values me. The ability to forgive still doesn't come easily. Unless you have experinced narcissistic abuse, you can't know that it takes time and having the narc out of your life as much as possible in order to heal. In my case it might take until I am with the Lord in Heaven.

Michelle

6/11/2018 10:34:12 pm

Thanks Kris. I too am a born again Christian who is going through the healing process. I hope there will be soon be enough proper Bible studies on this topic.

Mimi

1/31/2016 03:57:14 pm

Kat....that sounded really stupid when you said, "I don't think anyone should be able to post any comments here about narcissism unless you've lived with one and/or found yourself under the shoe of one and have done the research on the disorder."
Thats pretty ignorant even if you did have NPD you dont have to be an ass and say you know everything about when most people know nothing about the disorder and go about what the internet says about it.

I can say I have NPD and say so much shit that isnt true about it.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 07:56:23 pm

Mimi sounds like you are in denial. I'm sorry but Kat is correct.

Kat C.

2/19/2016 03:15:32 pm

Mimi I in no way implied I know everything about the disorder, or that all others that posted did not. It is obvious by reading the posts who has been on the receiving end of a person with NPD and clearly understands the complexity of the disorder and how it manifest in the behavior of the individual, how it impacts those closest to the N. It was obvious by your comment "no one is dying of this disorder so why say "survive" as if you had breast cancer." that you have not been on the receiving end. If you had survived such abuse from a narcissist you would understand the importance of being fully educated, not just by the generalities of the DSM but the more broad impact NPD has on the entire family. PTSD, anxiety and severe depression are often suffered in the wake of a person with NPD. The N suffers nothing.

Gail

3/28/2016 04:01:01 pm

My older sister is a text book case Narcissist. Some one posted "How do you get this individual to have an MRI of the Brain. It is so true. My sister had one, which revealed a lot of white matter to her brain. The only reason she had this was she is presently suffering from hypoglycemic like symptoms, she said. However, if the physician said (NPD), she would not go. I do not know if she knows what that is. My Psychologist's wife wrote two books on NPD (Disarming the Narcissist), which was very helpful. She did say to show empathy. It is so hard to do this. This confirms they are just so ill, it sickens me. I would never let her decide if she should pull the plug on me. I know she would, she is evil and it hurts.

Tamara

6/10/2016 05:46:06 am

Don't forget about neuroplasticity. They get worse with age by PRACTICING. How can you feel sorry for that?!

NarcHammer

10/4/2016 12:14:41 am

No sorry here.

Stephen

6/12/2016 09:46:10 pm

My mother is a narcissist, I got to know what it is really at the age of 49, life has been terrible all my life until I nearly died which saved me in a way as I started a new life abroad, became a teacher, someone and not something as she had alwys wanted me to be. Now I confront her, I know what she hates to hear and I throw it to her face.
She had a brain scan done a few years ago as she suffers from terrible pains in the head and no doctor could find what was wrong. I remember that she said that the anomaly was a lack of matter, I think she spoke of white matter although I am not sure if it was white or grey, I can't remember exactly. That would confirm her mental disorder.
Thanks s much for the article, it helps a lot.

On the fence

7/1/2016 10:37:13 am

N.P.D. Is still a fairly new psychological term and while I find it fitting to my mothers behavior, it was originally a show on sociopaths that seemed to fit her best. Upon reading this article I investigated the differences between those with N.P.D. And sociopaths. I found that they are both VERY similar. The distinction between the two was muddled and cloudy at best. This leads me to wonder if those with N.P.D. Aren't the same as their sociopath counterparts, perhaps just to a lesser degree or as the other article suggest those with N.P.D. Just play a shorter game. In my case my mother fits both criteria very well. Does anyone else feel this way regarding their abusers?

8/17/2016 08:37:49 am

I was not raised by a NPD but have lived among them for 38 years now. My spouse was the scapegoat, he lost his battle with BPD in 2011. The mental health profession, law makers and the churches play this as a mental disorder. It is not. God created us to love and to feel for others. These individuals suffer from spiritual retardation. As a human we consist of two parts, The mortal body which ages and dies, then the spiritual self (the soul) your life force. This lives for eternity. Somewhere along their journey the soul got stuck. They live between the 2nd and 3rd spiritual dimension. They have only the conscious awareness of a child. They know this and proceed to make a false self so no one will ever know their secret. They feel they are special. We all felt this when we were a child and we acted just like them. But we ascending fully into the 3rd dimension. The NPD live in darkness all their existence and they treat us this way to feel good with in them selves. However, the mental Health, Law Makers, and religious organizations are doing nothing to stop them. TO KNOW OF EVIL AND DO NOTHING IS EVIL. Also even though I have suffered and survived, I feel sorry for them and all those protecting them. For it is written they have nothing to look forward to in the end other than all the pain and suffering they have caused. Those reading this that have suffered at the hand of this evil, I bless you for your strength and endurance because I know what you have suffered. I am an Intuitive Empath. I Know your pain all so well.

Stephen

9/15/2016 04:08:45 am

My mother always complains about how miserable her life as a child has been with her mother and it makes me so angry when she does that as if my childhood had been better with her and my father who never talked to me, he's always been absent.
Two days ago as she started complaining I said to her "And you've had difficulties raising up your children because of your own difficult childhood". She answered "what do you mean?" and as she pretended not understanding I asked straightway "I would like to know if you ever loved me". She answered "You are so persecuted", that was her answer !!!. So I answered "Me persecuted? with what I went through, I should be far more angry, I'm not persecuted, I just ask you a simple question, can't you answer this? Have you ever loved me? It can't be difficult to answer that for a mother. All loving mothers say I love you to their children everyday but I never ever heard that from you". She answered "Well, I'm not going to argue with you", I said "well, it all sounds clear then if you can't give me an obvious easy answer to this question". And she hung up on me. She spends her life blaming her mother for the unhappy life that she had with her but I couldn't say anything about the hell, the terrible hell that I went through with both of them because I don't have the right to say anything otherwise she enters a crazy rage and swear words come out of her mouth, describing me as the trash of the trash to remain polite. I have become so detached from her crazyness thanks to years of work on myself, meditations... that I manage to play with her now and make fun of her.
She tells me regularly that she is going to have a stroke as she doesn't feel well at times, I think that she would like my attention, as when I was a kid I was so afraid that something could happen to her, I cared more of her than of me, now I just answer "Really?". And I think well, if only you could just go to hell and leave me alone! My father now has alzheimer's disease and she treats him so badly, although he never talked to me, I feel really sorry for him. She keeps telling me that when he dies, she will get a young man and give him my inheritance. I just think "well, who would accept such a witch more than an hour, noone,certainly not a young person. She sees my father dead as she has always wanted to destroy me. But now she is old and ugly like a witch and I am healthy, happy and still young, doing sport and living in peace and joy.
.

Denise

10/4/2016 07:47:47 am

We must have the same mom. Mine is just as awful. What a horrible illness they have. They are pathetic miserable people who want nothing more than to make everyone around them miserable so they aren't alone in their filth and disgusting existence. So sad

michelle

10/31/2016 01:41:35 pm

help people empathize? begin brutally emotionally abused?? oh i think not.

Tamajam

11/29/2016 01:41:32 am

Might the narcissistic brain act as a resonator to certain wavelengths of energy? Stay tuned, and find out on JUDGEMENT DAY.

Cheryl coady

1/2/2017 08:02:25 pm

So now they have an excuse to destroy lives and to continue in society hurting people being deceitful and screwing with the heads of people that actually do have empathy and compassion. They are pure evil and should not be walking among the rest of us. I'm sorry if that seems cold but as someone who for the last four years was brutalized emotionally terrorized by a narcissist I find the study to show they are dangerous because now they will get away with many things in the court of law and continue to hurt others.

Denise

1/2/2017 08:18:27 pm

Our society is not doing what it should to punish these narcissists. I've witnessed many abuse their children. I was a victim for 5 years by one. They are so manipulative and so cunning that I couldn't even recognize he was trying to get me in trouble with the law until much later. He tried to hurt me and could have been fatal. I caught on to these things he was doing. They aren't just big jerks. Jerks can be dealt with. The narcs are the devil and very evil. they do walk among us pretending to be something they are not! And this is frightening. You don't know who you're dealing with. They are hiding behind a mask and underneath that mask is a very evil person. this one that terrorized me is walking free and may have even found another victim. I was his 3 or 4th. I had no way to report him to authorities because what they do is so covert. To all his friends he is seemingly a great guy. Behind close doors he is an abuser with evil thoughts. No one would even believe me if I told about what he did. He took pleasure in abusing me. We need to rid society of this filth. Makes me sick.

zilverb

1/6/2017 03:01:29 pm

You are 100% correct, Denise!

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 08:02:17 pm

They are not human. They are low level beings by choice, some sort of weakness or random. They are not smart. They lack.

Ilene

1/3/2017 12:10:23 pm

Feel bad for these people? They may not be able to feel empathy, but there are many people who struggle with that for other reasons. No one makes a narcissist act in an abusive manner. Planning long term to lie and manipulate and destroy the lives of people, while pretending to treat them well in front of others, has little to do with lack of empathy and everything to do with calculated evil.

zilverb

1/6/2017 03:02:21 pm

Exactly, Ilene!

SolonLysander

7/11/2017 11:12:47 am

Dear Ilene, the "calculated evil" which is perpetrated by those with narcissistic personality disorder is a direct result of their lack of, or having no empathy for other human beings. To the person with NPD, they do not see their actions as evil, rather they see those who have empathy as being weak.

I have been subjected to narcissistic abuse in three of my previous employment positions. These people gained enjoyment from psychological abuse the caused me to endure and had no care of I lost my job and income, two actually found pleasure and enjoyment seeing me lose my job. Do I feel sorry for them ? In a way, yes, as they are extremely flawed persons who will never truly feel love and happiness in their lives. I also feel sorry, in a different way, for all the persons who are harmed, psychologically, physically and financially by the actions of persons with NPD.

Jodie

2/27/2017 02:17:49 pm

I am a survivor of back to back Narcs. I drug my ex husband to therapy due to hideous psychological, sexual, emotional and physical abuse. I had severe PTSD and turned into a shell of my former self. No one can begin to comprehend the destruction and pure evil these creatures are capable of unless they are in an intimate relationship with one. At any rate, he tried to charm the therapist but thank God he didn't pull the wool over his eyes. He diagnosed my husband with NPD in our first session. I divorced him shortly thereafter and then the real fun began. The smear campaign, head games, lies, financial abuse and lack of empathy during our divorce was astounding. Not to mention sleeping with neighbors and grandmothers. He was 32 during our divorce. Word has it he is physically and emotionally abusing his new victim and she's in therapy but can't escape. These evil, soulless monsters never change. RUN is all I can say.

Jaana Periaho

4/13/2017 10:10:42 pm

After reading the article I feel empathetic towards their condition and understand that they will be this way all their life. I even now feel compassionate towards Narcissists, that they are unable to feel true love and compassion....BUT, I will always be wary of Narcissistic Personality Disordered persons as they cannot be trusted. They lie, cheat, target your vulnerabilities and use them against you to hurt you. I have learned the need to establish strong boundaries and not allow people to treat me badly. That means no contact or limited contact with Narcs. I am no longer naive that all people are inherently good as that is not so - there are some incapacitated people in the world which makes them nasty. This article just medically verifies it...they have less brain matter..."put simply, the empathic areas of the brain..."

Costa

6/26/2017 06:19:12 am

What is the point of knowing that NPD can proved/diagnosed by brain image? Is it just for awareness? Or does the capability of diagnosis point to a possible treatment? Let's say I am able to drag my ex-husband to a psychiatrist, what can be done to help him and, consequently, help all others whose lives will otherwise be bulldozered by his attrocious behavior? I am serious, I don't want to stay in the "understanding and compassionate" zone as that has not done anything other than allowing him to spread his darkness even further; I want to take action.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 08:15:48 pm

I think they have weird brain structures. My husband has narrow veins in his brain found out by angioplasty from two strokes last year. They said it was hereditary. It makes me think of neanderthals.

Jan

7/15/2017 07:21:47 am

No way to change them...only yourself. I have been helped tremendously by Melanie Tonia Evans and Meredith Miller of Inner Integration after 25 years married to a seriously deranged person. He was abused/neglected as a child but his mother also put him on a pedestal..weird cocktail of abuse. For those suffering, go no contact and heal thyself. God bless.

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 08:16:52 pm

I watch Meredith Miller too. I also watch Lisa Romano.

Gentian van de Werken

9/30/2017 03:15:49 am

Having empathy and under standing NPD is good /and yes Ive been neglected and emotional abused first mother and then him for 54 years /and survived sibling scape goating and loosing my daughter to that crap/ but what NPDs do is the only way they can do /they should be held accountable for all the abuse and the financial abuse other wise the get even worse I have empathy and don't blame them for having genetically under developed brains /but what tees me off is the laws are made by and for them to get away with it all/we need brain scans in the law and the laws need to be made that during a divorce they can be brain scanned and then when NPD show on the out come of the scan all there banking and family members banking needs to be forensically tracked and the massive money found and given to the victum so they can get therapy and reintroduction to the world of empathy!

Sue

10/15/2017 11:09:00 am

This might sound strange, but is it possible to meet a narcissist who is kind of nice? I mean, I met someone (almost dated him but with very great difficulty managed to stay away) whom I suspected was a narc from the start. He only ever talked about himself, seemed to have no deep emotional connections with people and seemed to operate on only the most superficial levels, looked for partners as if he were looking for an appliance, placed the greatest importance on sex, and did not seem to understand couples who stood by eachother through hardships. When it came to interpersonal relationships, it was as if he was stuck at 18 years old despite being in his mid 50s. At the same time, he was in a noble profession (research scientist), was highly intelligent in the professional setting, helped othere, and tried to be a good father to his son with his ex wife. He was not malicious in the least but one did sometimes get the feeling that he was going through the motions of doing things. Is this another kind of narcissist? Someone perhaps very low on the NPD spectrum? Thanks

Sherri Cox

11/14/2017 08:08:54 pm

Look up Jinn. Genius is derived from it. Jennie is the female Jinn is the male.

Lisa A. Romano link

11/15/2017 05:06:03 am

While I think this is groundbreaking work, I also believe that anyone who has lived with, loved, or has had to deal with a narcissist, can tell you, it is like living in absolute hell. Nothing you say gets through to them. They twist what you say, accuse you of unimaginable things, lie about you, and eventually discard you when you begin expecting them to consider your perspective. What is really frightening is the idea that empathy make us human, doesn't it? What if none of us had empathy for others? What if the world was full of people who could not relate to the emotions of others? If we are going to start having empathy for narcissists, I think we also need to make it an absolute agenda to teach people how to deal with those who are unable to empathize with others. We need to teach people to understand that when they are dealing with those who have an inability for whatever reason, to empathize with others, we are in danger of being in a relationship that only has room for one perspective. When you love a narcissist--you--you--you--really do not exist. You are just there--like a prop and if you do or say anything that they cannot understand intellectually or approve of it is easy for them to cast you aside--because--they are unable to care how you feel.

Dave Beveridge

12/29/2017 09:35:18 am

98% of you are WRONG. Take a step back and quit with hate of people that are NPD. Hate the NPD but not them. I have a wife who causes great pain to me and sometimes family. It became clear to me under threat of divorce that she sees some of NPD behavior but not the big picture. SHE IS A VICTIM as well. She is so much more than the symptoms of NPD. I am going to try to live with it as we have done and will do great things in life. Im not nieve though and am taking precautions. I will rise above the lie, slander and manipulations. With knowledge the confidence comes back and so the truth will also. I know through life people have consider me an honorable person as many transactions and deals have been done on my word or a handshake. I will be that person again and dismiss the nonesence and if people don't see me for who I am screw them. I now now why my wife is the way she is. She is not broken or sick. She doesn't need medication. She is a fellow human that has a different perspective.

Judy

12/29/2017 10:24:47 am

Sorry Dave but we are not wrong. If you are happy to put up with this it's your personal choice. At least you didn't have narcissist parents, as a child you have no choice and are more vulnerable. Narcissists might have a "different perspective" but that doesn't mean it's a correct perspective. Tests have shown they know very well what they are doing and know they hurt people, on purpose. It's not that a lack of empathy in the brain makes them that way, they use it as an excuse. From a narcissist adult I would expect that they have learned by now what is ok to do and say and what not. Just because their conscience and lack of emotions doesn't stop them from doing it, doesn't mean that they have to do it. They know what hurts and what doesn't because they do not lose the ability to be hurt themselves when someone does it to them. If you are happy to put up with that, you are welcome to, but don't expect others to do the same. It doesn't make you a better person, in fact you are enabling her and making excuses for other narcissists that hurt others. That certainly is not a sign of being a nice person.

Dave Beveridge

12/30/2017 12:21:36 pm

I agree with much of what you say. It is my choice based on my belief that it isn't as simple as they have a choice and full understanding. I was hoping to rise above it armed with knowledge and strong character.... ####BUT##### a few minutes ago she came in and informed me she is finding a home for a 1 year old puppy that I am fond of. It is a sensitive dog that needed a general touch. We had a few arguments about this. She says getting rid of because it may get disciplined in the future and will cause problems between us. We all know she doesn't care about the dog or problems. It is aimed at upsetting me as I showed is kindness that she does not understand and I went to great lengths to defend it. The motive is obvious and hard to deal with. Rising above this I just said it is your dog and your choice. Also it will be out of the house to a loving family that she will likely find. I am going to be very adult about this for a while until I have some better clarity. I do feel like freaking out but I do remember how to act with dignity. I will not feed and work against my codependent nature and enable her. Ok that sounded very superior of me.. this person with ailment I'm defending should be feed to the wolves (metaphorically).

Judy

12/30/2017 01:13:39 pm

I agree that reacting with dignity is the best course of action. In fact, the best way to deal with a narcissist if you HAVE to live with them is to flatter them and talk only about them - that will make it easier for you to keep your sanity. Then it will be more easily accepted if you say NO to them (I usually sandwich my response in flattering - that way you can distract them from just having refused their demands) I chose to walk away - in this case it was my father. We still speak but I keep a save distance. I wish you all the best and strength - but please don't lose your identity.

Dave Beveridge

12/30/2017 02:52:13 pm

I have have my sanity back and now see that me blowing up for first time in my life was systematically taunted out of me. I'M BACK. I used to be a bit of a narcissist but in a healthy way. I had confidence that I could do anything within reason. Maybe cocky is better as I was good at what I did and was proud of my achievements. For years now was told any investment, legal or real estate knowledge was obsolete and useless. The only person I really feel superior to is my past self. Sometime between 11:00PM and 5:00AM after intense reading a switch turned on that changed everything. Guilt washed away and was replaced by anger. Now have spent thousands on theropy and 100's of hours reading. Anger is short term with alot of bewilderment and some understanding.

Dave Beveridge

12/31/2017 10:52:15 am

I WAS WRONG. Ok I was a person who tried to alter my thinking to believe NPD is not thier fault and simply a way they interact in a different way. A way that unfortunately affects others. Yesterday I was I informed that if I said that I believed she didn't abuse our one year old dog when a puppy we could keep him. She would tell the dog to come to her then hit it for peeing on the floor and on if it peed again when call or when been hit she would show it that and hit it more. I got upset about this and was demeaned. Not this say it's not abuse or dog goes is in my mind cruel. I felt for that dog and went though alot to defend it. At least it will go to better home. Also a parrot of hers that only liked me is being given away.

Jajagajabagajajavag link

1/20/2018 12:35:55 am

Jsjskajajqjqiqja

Diane link

1/26/2018 10:40:12 am

Run as fast as you can.. never look back... stay away from them.. they will try to wreck your life. RUN!

Dave Beveridge

1/31/2018 10:14:29 pm

I friend and ex neighbor of mine who kind of a loud biker type dated a potential covert NPD. After a few dates she did or said something that was inappropriate. He confronted her and she refused to appologize. He isn't the type that gets offended easily and has a fairly level head. He suggested she should appologize, then got a little more assertive. Ie. "I want to hear you are sorry" ... "Come on say the words I'm sorry" "You can't say it can you?" Then forgive the language.. " I've got no use for somebody like you, get away from me you bitc++. I know this guy and he was demanding the words but very likely in a non threatening way. He is a god to me now.. why didn't I see it until years later when my life is getting torn apart. How do these people exist.

Shar

3/12/2018 09:37:58 pm

Since NPD & BPD both seem to have a broken brain component AND one that can be addressed with Dialectical Behavior Therapy, let us identify such disorders early in children during wellness check ups (before 25 the brain can be adapted, afterwards it is MUCH harder). If not, I advocate the Native American tradition of isolating NPD (& others who threaten the entire tribe) somewhere (on a desert island?) together so that the disorder is a. not reproduced b. does not threaten the entire tribe (eg Trump & North Korean Presidents who as malignant NPDs could destroy the world on a wicked whim one day just because breakfast was not what they ordered): "The good of the many, out-weighs the good of the one" (adaptation of Spock's farewell speech in Star Trek!)

Kristine

7/31/2018 08:28:11 am

Bravo! Brilliantly said 😁

Janet Fedeles

3/25/2018 11:07:31 pm

Maybe these areas of the brain show under-developement because,they are never used!

Sherri

4/28/2018 12:31:31 pm

Its way, way more than 1%. I'm halfway through an intense survivor course from narcissistic abuse from Lisa Romano. They are everywhere.

Les

5/23/2018 10:18:58 am

I don't think that forgiving someone who hurt you is saying you let them off the hook. Forgiving them is for us, the victims, to let it go so the pain does not destroy us further. It is not easy. I am having a very hard time forgiving narcs in my life, but I really just want to forget them. Forgetting is much harder for me when they are family, especially when they are my child. Did I do anything to cause this, and if I did, what can I do about it now that they are grown? Round and round it goes in my head and I can't seem to let go of my own guilt in raising a selfish person who has no remorse. To say that narcissists can never change may help the victims to get out of bad situations, but to me it is a way to write off human beings rather than to call them on their bad behavior. Even if someone could find a biological reason for people becoming pathologically selfish doesn't mean they don't know right from wrong. Therefore, they need to take responsibility for their behavior. Maybe they learned this behavior in childhood as a way to cope with trauma or maybe they were brain damaged in utero--each case is unique. But, though they are not responsible for the cause during childhood, they are now responsible for the results of their behavior in adulthood. Perhaps some never will change, but then some people have biological reasons for addition, and yet they get clean and sober. It is hard to do, but people do it. Don't write off the narcissists anymore than you would write off a drug addict. Perhaps the narcs get some kind of self-induced high from the power they wield. But whatever we do, we should never enable their bad behavior because that makes us part of the problem.

Lin

6/2/2018 12:54:50 pm

I will never have empathy for a narc again. It is a manipulative, calculating trap. They know exactly what they are doing to get their way and hurt other people. Case in point... Michael Broughton's comment above. Monstrous. Narcs are abusers.

Kristibe

7/31/2018 08:24:39 am

I have a very hard time believing it’s strictly a brain disorder. Their behaviors are well thought out and calculated. They act one way when alone with you and totally another when other company is present - so they look good. They easily put masks on and take them off. How is that an organic brain disease? I’ve worked with others with brain issues and they don’t plan and plot, they have no control. This is a spiritual disease, a morality disorder, and a choice. I understand the idea of forgiveness as it sets the victim free, but to ask someone to have empathy for these deliberate monsters who actively seek to ruin others is really crossing a line. A previous poster was right, if you can muster the strength to have empathy - do it from far far far away!

Wanna Be Thriver

9/19/2018 11:41:23 am

Why...why...why...do these people have such powerful control over themselves and others WHEN THEY WANT TO! I understand that their brains are wired differently. However high functioning Narcs keep their shit together when they are at work because they learn there will be consequences if they screw up. They love money, status, position, image, profile, ego as much as they love mangling the psyches of their loved ones where they use little to no control other than plotting their agenda. Delivery of that agenda is LIFE altering for the recipients.
I and the children will forever be changed. You can’t unring that bell. Neither of my adult children are normal. Live normal lives. They don’t recognize they have been abnormally changed unless they are in some way acting dysfunctional or harming their selves. He, the Narc continues to affect...he has a new resource and is raising a new victimizer.
Divorce a Narc and you will see a hybrid version of Narc appear. When I had to do anything that required his co-operation if he heard one word that triggered him he would walk out. He wanted a divorce, tho I begged him not to after 23 yrs of marriage. He did what ever he could to sabotage. It gave him more time to plot situations where he thought he could make me look like a Gold Digger to the judge. A horrible person to live with. Judge had to point out that gold diggers don’t go to work, surrender their entire income to a marriage nor do they stay married for 20+ yrs.
His lawyer tried to make him look like a victim. The judge interrupted his lawyer as if he had nothing pertinate to contribute.
This is the only break I got during a divorce that cost me 20,000
& more. I have CPTSD & anxiety. I blame myself. I had flags I ignored. Not knowing what a Narc was at the time I thought his road rage could be managed. I thought his out bursts and weird parenting could change. He didn’t directly attack me for years. He needed me to take care of his kids and him. He needed my income. Now I know it was covert methods he used on me.
How do we stop being affected by these behaviors that have left us fragmented? I don’t like Being a survivor. Yes he was like being on the Titanic and I managed to be rescued. Now I want more for myself. I want more from myself. He’s gone I need to stop crying for the man I once had, the man I never had. I need to stop nightmaring and day dreaming. Are there fixes out here somewhere? I’ve been in therapy. I feel helpless. I feel damaged.
I’m out of tricks to manage and change myself.

Want to thrive not survive

8/4/2018 08:34:05 pm

I truly wish there were support groups for those of us that want to reach beyond survival from our own dysfunction after living with a personality that that so profoundly affects us and our families like roots on a tree. I don’t have enough space here to detail the facts of how I ended up loving a person that etched away like slow leaking acid at the characters of his family. I had not heard the word narcissist until I went into therapy while going through a divorce. This man I loved devoured me like a frenzied shark in court.
He is highly intelligent, persuasive, accomplished, manipulative, and capable of controlling his behavior when necessary. His over confidence, arrogance and entitlement has allowed him to remain unaccountable for his actions for the most part. He surrounds himself with a support system that keeps him insulated from consequences. He knows how to keep his various supporters in check at all times. He’s learned to do that after failing at more than a few successful careers including 22 yrs in the military. Of coarse the loss of these powerful positions were never his fault.
He was very careful to learn the necessary tools to better up his game with each new employer.
He was sued in court for sexual harassment. Drinking on site with a subordinate female employee and had porn on his work computer. The lawsuit was 6 grueling yrs long. He let me believe he was innocent and I wrote many of his rebuttals to the federal allegations. He let me find his legal counsel. All done and said he had to decide to tell the truth or lie during a deposition. I didn’t learn the truth of these documents (23 4” binders) until he left them behind in a box marked “open upon my death”. He didn’t want his new to be wife to read them. He also didn’t dispose of them before he moved out of state. That says a lot in itself. Before the depositions he did admit his involvement with this woman and another man at work. They were government contractors for the military. If he was caught in his deception and lied under oath it was a prison sentence and high security loss for life. On his knees with tears flowing he admitted to inappropriate judgement on his part but he was not guilty as charged. He would give me a divorce, the home, all the money I wanted, a new car, the kids, my dog and my cat. He would sign anything and not resist. I should have taken the offer and moved far, far away. Things were good for awhile. The man I once knew that was kind and loving returned. It didn’t last. Once his cat bag was exposed his behaviors changed dramatically. He had always been moody, had tantrums, was demanding and cruel in ways only one knows if they are intimate parts of his life. I’d say you have to live with a true Narcissist to know the depth of destruction they create.
I have 2 adult children with severe emotional problems and drug additions. My daughter tried to commit suicide 3 weeks ago. My oldest son drank himself to death at age 43. These are facts and statistics. There are many more horrific stories but I’m sharing my first true nightmare today.
Nature vs nurture. I asked his mother about his childhood and one of her first stories were that after his brother was born, their
second son my X stopped walking. Being not quite 2 yrs old they were certain he had a disease. After much testing and many Drs it was concluded that he was jealous of not being the only child. He refused to walk for almost 6 months. A bit much for a simple case of the terrible twos. My X tortured his brother into adulthood. Once putting him in the hospital because he stomped on his head
repeatedly as a preteen. This was filmed by his father and everyone watching was laughing and cheering him on. This film was shown to grand kids while watching old home movies. Again everyone was laughing calling the brother a pussy because his health had always been fragile from the injury forward. I was the only person appalled at what I was witnessing. Jealousy and
torture from the age of two. This family could be a case study for a theist on the subject of NPD Syndrome.
What I know for certain is that I was left with PTSD, debilitating anxiety, depression and other physical problems that slowly changed my emotional and physical future. My endrcrine system was almost destroyed. My ammune system is damaged. As the
slow trickle of gaslighting took its toll over the yrs when the shit hit the fan I was on a downward spiral.
I am not a victim I was a uneducated participant. There was no marriage couslor out there that had a clue how to help. He often manipulated the therapist into believing I created all the problems. I was sick, needed multiple surgeries required to much
attention...yada yada.
He disappeared one day after admitting his multiple women on the string and I had to find him. For 6 yrs he had been with a woman 20 yrs younger than me. She had a 3,5 month old baby. Living o

Thriver

8/4/2018 09:13:25 pm

This site didn’t post my entire story sorry folks I can’t write it again.

Kristine

9/16/2018 07:54:02 am

These people live in a constant state of extreme fight/flight mode. In their case it’s fight. To be in control is to be safe. I feel they become addicted over time to the adrenaline rushes of power and control, even to the point of sexual arousal. Some are sadists, they revel in making you cry, hurt, or in pain. They hone their skills of manipulation over time and become experts at it - it ensures their survival after all and keeps that dopamine reward flowing whenever they achieve dominance. The empaths are the enablers of this vicious cycle to continue. The more we allow this to occur, have empathy for it and stick around to take the abuse, the more practice they get and the more rewards of dopamine they get to continue the addiction. What is needed is not more empathy for the abusers, but education of the inner workings of this thoroughly dysfunctional and devastating problem. If we all simply ignored them [because we were educated in who and what they are] they’d all die out. Stop feeding the monster and it will starve.

Thriver Wanna Be

9/16/2018 05:53:15 pm

Kristine I appreciate your response. YUP the second I forgave him for deception and crimes he lost respect for me. I thought that receded, went away. Remember I didn’t know about narcissisim at this point. Boys will be, everyone slips, no one is perfect, I’ve no right to judge, he was hurting...need I say more.
I realize (now) that I was part of the problem. As tuff as that is to admit I realize that the sum total of all the parts is that I have become embarrassingly comfortable with my abandonment. It’s an old friend. It tucks me in at night. It never leaves me. I can always depend on my old friend to be there at all times.
It is unloving to ask someone to deliver what they don’t have to deliver. Unloving to them and myself. I realize this. I’ve misplaced my ability to trust others & myself. I don’t know how or when this happened. I have empolded. The happier I became, the more secure I felt, the more freedom I experienced with confidence the further my husband drifted. This seems counterintuitive. Today I don’t trust my ability to recognize beasts in the forest. I don’t trust my empathic ability that got me through near death experiences. I don’t trust parking lots or cinnamon bread. Paper dolls or movie theaters. It’s not rational. I’m consumed with anxiety & medicated - disabiliing CPTSD. I dont know what my triggers are. I simply feel them and react. What happened to this once confident woman that was nearly fearless. Steeped in depression I have wrecked my health. Brushing my teeth is a reason to celebrate. So celebrate it I’m told & add one more thing rinse with mouth wash. One more thing...I crash. Retreat to bed. Don’t eat, I’m not hungry. Can’t sleep, sleep to much. Afraid to drive down the street. I drove all over the country with no GPS for years. Don’t answer the phone or show up at events with friends. I don’t heal physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. Cognitively I get it. Implementing it I fail. Dr. says classic depression. Get more counseling, take more meds. Yes it’s all about me. I’m selfish. I need to be at this point. My family isn’t exempt from boundaries because they are blood. They are betrayers as well. Forgive & I will feel Love. My reaction = really? Will that stop my colitis. No one can say. I feel like a cutter hemorrhaging without cutting. How did a Narc accomplish this? How did I not recognize that I was in trouble? I’m not stupid or uneducated. I wasn’t passive when we went to therapy. I wasn’t afraid until he scared me. I feel like a huge pathetic failure. Question. How do people learn to love these Narcissists and get so deeply entrenched in a conundrum we find seemingly impossible to get out of?

Lynette

9/16/2018 09:48:39 am

I accidental unsubscribed now what?

Seeing Narcissism in the Brain

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